About to buy an 87 Quest, I need help please!!!

Joined: 01 Aug 2006 Posts: 17

Hello, Im new to this board. My name is Josh.

Ok, I'll try and lay everything out because Im new to the Conquests.

Im probably going to buy an 87 Conquest Tsi. The guy wants $1200. The body is in excellent shape and the paint (red) is really good. The interior (black leather) is also surprisingly excellent. The tires are decent, but will probably need to be changed...

Onto the motor...

The battery was dead (it has been sitting for a couple months) but started fine after a jump.
The air conditioning belt has been removed. The owner said there is a coolant leak and he never converted it to 134. He said it would still work if you jus tput the belt back on.
The car will run and drive fun but the owner said there was a problem with the turbo. You can drive around fine for a while, but then it will start smoking black smoke. You spool up the turbo and it will stop. He was pretty sure the problem was the turbo
There is 107,000 miles on the car and the engine was supposedly rebuilt 2 yrs ago
The transmission and clutch seem strong

After a good wash and wax, the car would be very good looking. He has all the shop manuals with the car. I really need advice on buying the car and what to do about the turbo problem. Im really afraid to drive it with that problem.

Joined: 09 Apr 2006 Posts: 35 Location: Des Moines, IA

For 1200 dollars I'd say it doesn't sound to be too bad of a deal. Just make sure that the turbo is the only issue. mine was purchased with a cracked head but I kinda new that going into the deal.

What I would look at is how much money you want to spend after buying the car. the A/C isn't a big deal as you don't really NEED a/c to drive the car. If the turbo is going/gone, now would be a great time to upgrade. might as well get what you want.

drive the car. make sure everything works the way it should. watch the temp guage and determine whether or not it wants to overheat.

DO A FLUID CHECK. Make sure all the fluids look like they should. ask him about service history. whats recently been done. Really, just go into this like you would any used car. check the usual. cover your bases on questions and you should be ok. If your really not comfortable doing all this yourself, take a friend/mechanic with you who knows what to look for.

Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 4610 Location: Ocala, fl

don't blame every thing on the turbo,,all it does is push air

blk smoke normaly means too much fuel,,i'd be checking the sensors , coolant temp sensor and air boot hose,, the air boot can have no cracks or leaks ,, the sensor is the two prong'd one pointing up at the hood by the dip stick hold bolt ,

as with any car wireing connectors must be clean and solid ,
test senor with ohm meter 3-5k cold and aprox 300 ohms at 180 degrees

Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 733 Location: IN, Indianapolis

Turbo(s) are like carburators from the 70's - they get blamed for everything.

1) It is very likely that you have a bad coolant temp sensor. Check ECU trouble codes here:
http://starquest.i-x.net/viewtopic.php?t=402

2) It is very likely that you have an air leak between the Air Flow Meter, intercooler, and throttle body. Plug off one-end, let's say at the Throttle Body, and then modify your coolant leak-down test pump to fit at the other end -- remove intercooler hose at turbo. Does your intercooler hoses hold air pressure?

3) Now that you have removed the accordian hose between air flow meter and the turbo, check the turbo shaft for play. Do you see oil puddled in turbo housing?

Joined: 01 Aug 2006 Posts: 17

Thanks for the advice! One more thing Im worried about...it starts up fine and seems to run smoothly, is there any apparent reason I should do a compression check?

Ive pretty much concluded Im going to buy this car. I need a project badly. Very Happy

Thanks again!

Joined: 09 Apr 2006 Posts: 35 Location: Des Moines, IA

a compresstion check will clue you in on a lot of potential problems.

Bad rings, blow-by,
Cracked head,
Blown headgasket,
etc, etc, etc.........

Joined: 01 Aug 2006 Posts: 17

Ok, just went and picked it up! I drove it about 20 miles back to work and it drove and ran strong. My friend rode behind me and said he noticed some dark grey/black smoke when i shifted and when i took corners?

The guy originally thought it was the turbo, but the turbo spooled well and was strong. This seems to me like some type of sensor problem like you guys said. I will be checking it this weekend, but am not sure which sensor to start with. And also, can I get these parts at a place like Autozone?

Thanks so much!

Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 733 Location: IN, Indianapolis

Re-read my previous post...

Before buying any new parts, ask us first. We will be glad to steer you away from problem-prone parts e.g. Bosch Platinums

Joined: 01 Aug 2006 Posts: 17

Thanks!

I am going to work on it tomorrow. And what you said about the parts made me think...

I'll probably just go ahead and do a complete tune up.

Plugs, plug wires, oil/filter, coolant, brakes...anything Im missing?

I'll also probably just go ahead and replace the coolant temp sensor. Are there any other sensors that have a tendancy to go bad? I would like to make just one trip to the parts store Very Happy

.

Also, what weight oil would be best in this situation 10w30?

Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 4610 Location: Ocala, fl

see your second reply shows your not going to listen when your given advice ,, stop parts swaping in an effort to cure a problem,, only sound trouble shooting will ever get you any where with this car,,
you may as well learn this now because you will be doing it befor it's over with , only replace parts when they are proven to be less then adicuate or you have not testing options available to you

Joined: 01 Aug 2006 Posts: 17

Quote:

stop parts swaping in an effort to cure a problem,, only sound trouble shooting will ever get you any where with this car

so youre saying i shouldnt perform a tune up, even though this car has been sitting for so long? The car has been started periodically over a period of two years, so I think the tune up is a must.

And as far as the coolant sensor, I will run the codes first to verify, but mostly everyone has suggested this is bad, so this is the first thing I will check.

I appreciate your advice very much![/quote]

Joined: 01 Aug 2006 Posts: 17

indy_85stariones wrote:

Turbo(s) are like carburators from the 70's - they get blamed for everything.

1) It is very likely that you have a bad coolant temp sensor. Check ECU trouble codes here:
http://starquest.i-x.net/viewtopic.php?t=402

2) It is very likely that you have an air leak between the Air Flow Meter, intercooler, and throttle body. Plug off one-end, let's say at the Throttle Body, and then modify your coolant leak-down test pump to fit at the other end -- remove intercooler hose at turbo. Does your intercooler hoses hold air pressure?

3) Now that you have removed the accordian hose between air flow meter and the turbo, check the turbo shaft for play. Do you see oil puddled in turbo housing?

Ok, well I did what you suggested here. And first of all, let me say it seems the problem still exists. Sad

I checked the codes, and from what I could tell, it had o2 sensor, TPS, and coolant temp sensor. I replaced the coolant temp sensor. i did not replace the other two. I reset the ECU but I have not checked the codes since.

I'm not really sure what you mean by pressurizing the hoses, so I did not do this. I did take the accordian hose lose form the turbo though and there was NOT oil in the turbo, nor was there any play in the shaft. Smile

The accordian hose did, however kinda come apart when I took it off. it was falling apart under the clamp.

I also changed the oil. The car actually seemed to be running better. But it still smokes some on startup. And it billows out a good amount of smoke at random and spooling up clears it up. One other note I didnt mention before it is backfires quite often. (Before and after my recent repairs) If I get into it a little bit, then back off, it backfires. It also smells very strong. Maybe this can help a little. I have not performed a compression check yet although I plan on doing this soon. I will also try and run the codes again tomorrow to see if anything has changed.

Thanks again!

Joined: 06 Aug 2003 Posts: 1389 Location: N.E. Pennsylvania

First off about your Code Testing- You will have an 02 sensor code anytime that car is not HOT and running, so you can pretty much ignore that (unless you've got an extra few bucks laying around, i wouldn't worry about replacing that just yet, they really do not do a whole ton for our car).

The TPS Code- you need to go through and do a TPS/ISC reset procedure. While doing this procedure, you will have to do a test of the TPS, where you read it's output voltage using a ANALOG (not digital) voltmeter (use analog so that you can see the needle move smoothly). You should have a full-steady sweep of voltage from the TPS, any flat spots or jumpy-ness indicates it's time for replacement.

Nextly (Very Important), you need to get that Acordian hose REPLACED!!!. Our cars use a MAS (Mass air sensor) which is the big electrical guy on the top of the air filter canister. If there are any rips in this hose you will have all sorts of fuel related problems because what the MAS is reading will be different than the amount of air that is actually coming into the engine. Build something to replace this hose, buy a used one, whatever, but replace it and do it well. DO NOT silicone, tape, etc that old hose to try and repair it. That bugger sees a ton of Vacuum when the turbo is making boost and you certainly do not want anything like tape getting sucked in there.

pen

Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 733 Location: IN, Indianapolis

jmoe816 wrote:

Ok, well I did what you suggested here. And first of all, let me say it seems the problem still exists. Sad

I checked the codes, and from what I could tell, it had o2 sensor, TPS, and coolant temp sensor. I replaced the coolant temp sensor. i did not replace the other two. I reset the ECU but I have not checked the codes since.

Which one of the coolant temp sensors did you replace? There are three of them.
1) Temp Gauge in the Dash
2) ECU
3) AC Compressor

I don't remember which one is which. Run Search for previous posts on Coolant temp sensor.

Most likely, you only replaced the one for the temp gauge in the dash. The one for the ECU is the one that counts. I just made the same mistake on my 1984 Maxima. Who knew the the ECU coolant temp sensor would be mounted at the rear of engine on Nissan(s)?

Re-check ECU error codes.

jmoe816 wrote:

I'm not really sure what you mean by pressurizing the hoses, so I did not do this. I did take the accordian hose lose form the turbo though and there was NOT oil in the turbo, nor was there any play in the shaft. Smile

The accordian hose did, however kinda come apart when I took it off. it was falling apart under the clamp.

Everything between air flow meter and throttle bode MUST be air tight!!! No leaks what-so-ever. Most folks are creative and think of their own ways of making sure that intercooler hoses do not leak. Some folks make a plug with a Shrader Valve and pump up with a bicycle tire pump. If the intercooler hoses hold air pressure, then there are no leaks. I believe that you can invent something similar to my idea using a radiator/cooling system leakdown test pump.

As Matt said, you have probably found your problem -- a cracked accordian hose!!!!

Turbo sounds like it is still in great shape!!!

jmoe816 wrote:

I also changed the oil. The car actually seemed to be running better. But it still smokes some on startup. And it billows out a good amount of smoke at random and spooling up clears it up. One other note I didnt mention before it is backfires quite often. (Before and after my recent repairs) If I get into it a little bit, then back off, it backfires. It also smells very strong. Maybe this can help a little. I have not performed a compression check yet although I plan on doing this soon. I will also try and run the codes again tomorrow to see if anything has changed.

I use Castrol GTX 10W30 when weather is below 32F. I use straight 30W most of the year. Most folks here use 20W50. Turbocharged engines really take their toll on multi-weight oil, so do NOT use 5W30 or 10W40. I use OEM Mitsu oil filter. I use Hastings Premium (Baldwin) and Wix on my other vehicles. Avoid FRAM.

It is always a good idea to get your car running right before doing a tune-up. And when doing a tune-up, replace parts one-day-at-a-time. Replace Spark Plugs on Monday, see how car runs the rest of the day.
If that goes well, Replace Spark Plug Wires on Tues, see how car runs the rest of the day. Continue with day-by-day procedure with cap and rotor.

Read thru Matt's post.

Re-check ECU error codes.

You may need to read and learn TPS and ISC reset procedures for the given model year of your car.

Welcome to the Board!!!

Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 733 Location: IN, Indianapolis

In case that you haven't discovered this already...

Black smoke from exhaust pipe means running too rich.

Blue smoke from exhaust pipe means burning oil.

White smoke from exhaust pipe means burning radiator fluid.

You have Black smoke from running too rich. Most likely, your ECU is confused because air that was measured by the air flow meter is being lost before it reaches the throttle body -- a crack in the accordian hose will cause this. Another common reason, your ECU is confused because coolant temp sensor is bad and telling ECU that engine is running at 0F degrees when it actually is 80F degrees or higher.

Joined: 01 Aug 2006 Posts: 17

These replies clear a lot up for me. thanks! After some more playing around today, I noticed the clamp in the middle of the turbo was lose and I tightened it up. Theres a guy here in town who responded to a message board request who says he has a motor from an 89 Quest. It has 65k on it. Im waiting to see how much he wants for it, but he says its complete with a possible cracked water pump. If the price is right I may buy it for parts/rebuilding.

Yall have been very helpful. Thanks, Im gonna keep on trucking and hope I find the problem.

**edit** also let me just say that what I was told was black smoke is not black, its white. So like youve said, this is from coolant. Soon, I will run a coolant leak test. Now that Ive clarified that, could it still be the accordian hose? Im not really sure how all the sensors work, and if there is a hole in the hose why does it matter since air comes through that hose anyways?

Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 4610 Location: Ocala, fl

the fuel air system is a close'd system,, all air MUST be read by the air mass,, in order for the ecu to corectly make the right fuel air adjustments,,,no air or vacum or pressure leaks will be tolerate'd
from the air mass to the cyl head includeing all hoses and pipes etc

Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 733 Location: IN, Indianapolis

jmoe816 wrote:

**edit** also let me just say that what I was told was black smoke is not black, its white. So like youve said, this is from coolant. Soon, I will run a coolant leak test.

First thing, fix all air leaks between air flow meter and throttle body.

Second thing, resolve all problems with ECU error codes.

Moving on, before you start your car (the first thing in the morning)...
-- remove radiator cap
-- top off radiator fluid with 50/50 antifreeze and distilled (or filtered) water
-- start engine
-- examine the neck of radiator

Do you see bubbles?

Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 4610 Location: Ocala, fl

you said air boot was falling apart but you never said you replace'd it,,that is a very important part,, any material comeing apart on the boot will certainly distroy the turbo if and when it comes off , never tape rtv or any hald ass attempts at doing a quick fix on it should ever be done ,,you'l only makeing a distroy'd turbo next in line for replacement

Joined: 01 Aug 2006 Posts: 17

penick000 wrote:

Build something to replace this hose, buy a used one, whatever, but replace it and do it well.
pen

Any sites or how-tos or suggestions on making something that would work in place of the accordian hose? Ive searched a lot and see some aftermarket hard pipes but I would like to try and make something myself.

Thanks!